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	<title>Comments on: Further Musings on Avatar: The Na&#8217;vi Aren&#8217;t As Primitive As We May Think</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dynamicsubspace.net/2010/03/09/further-musings-on-avatar-the-navi-arent-as-primitive-as-we-may-think/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dynamicsubspace.net/2010/03/09/further-musings-on-avatar-the-navi-arent-as-primitive-as-we-may-think/</link>
	<description>Studying Science Fiction, Neuroscience, and Digital Technology</description>
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		<title>By: Jason Ellis</title>
		<link>http://dynamicsubspace.net/2010/03/09/further-musings-on-avatar-the-navi-arent-as-primitive-as-we-may-think/#comment-2107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Ellis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dynamicsubspace.net/?p=1473#comment-2107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Pawel! I might turn some of this into an essay to send out--stay tuned. -Jason]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Pawel! I might turn some of this into an essay to send out&#8211;stay tuned. -Jason</p>
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		<title>By: Pawel</title>
		<link>http://dynamicsubspace.net/2010/03/09/further-musings-on-avatar-the-navi-arent-as-primitive-as-we-may-think/#comment-2102</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pawel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dynamicsubspace.net/?p=1473#comment-2102</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jason, this is a very interesting reading!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, this is a very interesting reading!</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Ellis</title>
		<link>http://dynamicsubspace.net/2010/03/09/further-musings-on-avatar-the-navi-arent-as-primitive-as-we-may-think/#comment-2097</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Ellis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dynamicsubspace.net/?p=1473#comment-2097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Swaralipi,

Thanks for your reply to my second Avatar post. I see what you&#039;re saying about the distinction with primitivity. It was my own fault for creating an equivalency between pre-colonial and primitive. My post was a reaction to the things that I&#039;ve heard others say about the Na&#039;vi in what to Western eyes would be a &#039;state of nature,&#039; but is in fact, so much more (and different) than that. 

I wonder about how Cameron might have done things differently regarding the presentation of the Na&#039;vi. The humans and specifically Jake Sully is our guide to Pandora and the Na&#039;vi--it is through him that we get to experience their way of life and personalities, despite their, as you say, lack of complexity. Most of the things that we learn about the Na&#039;vi are physical--horsemanship, flying, hunting, death rituals for Na&#039;vi and in hunting, a peppering of Eywa, and the Toruk Makto myth. The one point when Jake as Avatar first enters the circle of the people eating and presumably telling stories, we do not get to take part in that experience. What stories do the Na&#039;vi tell? I would like to hear that, and perhaps Cameron may (or should) do something like this on the special features for the DVD/BD release. I guess we really only experience the Na&#039;vi through the things that will prepare or enable them to challenge the human colonial power. 

And considering what you say about Neytiri, I&#039;m thinking about the way in which sex and heteronormative pair bonding play into her entering the contact zone. I haven&#039;t read Pratt (are you referring to her &quot;Arts of the Contact Zone?). The Na&#039;vi apparently have male warriors choose their female mate. It seems to me that forces beyond Neytiri push her towards what turns into a sexualized contact zone. Ewya stays her hand when she goes to kill Jake. Moat puts Neytiri in charge of Jake&#039;s Na&#039;vi warrior education. Jake says that his mate choice must also choose him, but I think that by that point there isn&#039;t much choice on the part of Neytiri. I&#039;m only beginning to think about this, but it seems that she is doubly bound by her relation to the human imperialists and by her sex. Cameron did leave out the messy bits between Jake and Neytiri--there is so much potential about how human sexual binarism could be turned on its head here (I&#039;m thinking about Le Guin&#039;s The Left Hand of Darkness). 

Jason]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Swaralipi,</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply to my second Avatar post. I see what you&#8217;re saying about the distinction with primitivity. It was my own fault for creating an equivalency between pre-colonial and primitive. My post was a reaction to the things that I&#8217;ve heard others say about the Na&#8217;vi in what to Western eyes would be a &#8216;state of nature,&#8217; but is in fact, so much more (and different) than that. </p>
<p>I wonder about how Cameron might have done things differently regarding the presentation of the Na&#8217;vi. The humans and specifically Jake Sully is our guide to Pandora and the Na&#8217;vi&#8211;it is through him that we get to experience their way of life and personalities, despite their, as you say, lack of complexity. Most of the things that we learn about the Na&#8217;vi are physical&#8211;horsemanship, flying, hunting, death rituals for Na&#8217;vi and in hunting, a peppering of Eywa, and the Toruk Makto myth. The one point when Jake as Avatar first enters the circle of the people eating and presumably telling stories, we do not get to take part in that experience. What stories do the Na&#8217;vi tell? I would like to hear that, and perhaps Cameron may (or should) do something like this on the special features for the DVD/BD release. I guess we really only experience the Na&#8217;vi through the things that will prepare or enable them to challenge the human colonial power. </p>
<p>And considering what you say about Neytiri, I&#8217;m thinking about the way in which sex and heteronormative pair bonding play into her entering the contact zone. I haven&#8217;t read Pratt (are you referring to her &#8220;Arts of the Contact Zone?). The Na&#8217;vi apparently have male warriors choose their female mate. It seems to me that forces beyond Neytiri push her towards what turns into a sexualized contact zone. Ewya stays her hand when she goes to kill Jake. Moat puts Neytiri in charge of Jake&#8217;s Na&#8217;vi warrior education. Jake says that his mate choice must also choose him, but I think that by that point there isn&#8217;t much choice on the part of Neytiri. I&#8217;m only beginning to think about this, but it seems that she is doubly bound by her relation to the human imperialists and by her sex. Cameron did leave out the messy bits between Jake and Neytiri&#8211;there is so much potential about how human sexual binarism could be turned on its head here (I&#8217;m thinking about Le Guin&#8217;s The Left Hand of Darkness). </p>
<p>Jason</p>
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		<title>By: Swaralipi</title>
		<link>http://dynamicsubspace.net/2010/03/09/further-musings-on-avatar-the-navi-arent-as-primitive-as-we-may-think/#comment-2007</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Swaralipi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dynamicsubspace.net/?p=1473#comment-2007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, well this is getting so interesting. Love your observations Jason!! I want to add a little bit to my earlier comment in this context of primitivity. By &#039;pristine&#039; and &#039;pre-colonial&#039; i certainly did not mean &#039;primitive.&#039;You have rightly observed, they are indeed much more technologically advanced, as the term &#039;primitive&#039; ties more with technology than with any aspect of human character. My complaint against Cameron was not because he showed the Na&#039;vis to be &#039;primitive&#039;---for to consider their lifestyle to be &#039;primitive&#039;is another form of colonial narcissism, and I guess Cameron tried to dismantle that very consciously. What I found lacking in the film is the lack of complexity of the Na&#039;vi characters (expect to a small extent Neyitri) that reinforces the hierarchy between the humans and the Na&#039;vis. It is the same problem that Jane Tomkins found in Hutchinson&#039;s depiction of the Indian massacre in early American history, whereby the Indians are portrayed as innocent, pitiable creatures mercilessly slaughtered by the colonialists.The Na&#039;vis in Cameron&#039;s film are gullible and child-like, they lack complexies and thus are deprived of the great &#039;human&#039; predicament of making &#039;moral&#039; choices. As I mentioned earlier, the only character that stands out is Neyitri but then she is also the one who has transcended her Na&#039;vi existence and has entered into the hybrid space of colonial &#039;contact zone&#039;, to quote Pratt, for how can we forget that she has been trained in English and is closest to the humans of all the Na&#039;vi characters!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, well this is getting so interesting. Love your observations Jason!! I want to add a little bit to my earlier comment in this context of primitivity. By &#8216;pristine&#8217; and &#8216;pre-colonial&#8217; i certainly did not mean &#8216;primitive.&#8217;You have rightly observed, they are indeed much more technologically advanced, as the term &#8216;primitive&#8217; ties more with technology than with any aspect of human character. My complaint against Cameron was not because he showed the Na&#8217;vis to be &#8216;primitive&#8217;&#8212;for to consider their lifestyle to be &#8216;primitive&#8217;is another form of colonial narcissism, and I guess Cameron tried to dismantle that very consciously. What I found lacking in the film is the lack of complexity of the Na&#8217;vi characters (expect to a small extent Neyitri) that reinforces the hierarchy between the humans and the Na&#8217;vis. It is the same problem that Jane Tomkins found in Hutchinson&#8217;s depiction of the Indian massacre in early American history, whereby the Indians are portrayed as innocent, pitiable creatures mercilessly slaughtered by the colonialists.The Na&#8217;vis in Cameron&#8217;s film are gullible and child-like, they lack complexies and thus are deprived of the great &#8216;human&#8217; predicament of making &#8216;moral&#8217; choices. As I mentioned earlier, the only character that stands out is Neyitri but then she is also the one who has transcended her Na&#8217;vi existence and has entered into the hybrid space of colonial &#8216;contact zone&#8217;, to quote Pratt, for how can we forget that she has been trained in English and is closest to the humans of all the Na&#8217;vi characters!</p>
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